Your adaptations

[Rake]

Try telling a Welsh hill farmer that he can stop relying on sheep to earn a living where literally nothing else grows / survives.

He is a microscopic minority of meat producers and he isn't the problem, and as there will always be people who enjoy eating meat he can and indeed should continue to supply them. In terms of anything we "consume", food or otherwise, the supply chain is far more relevant environmentally than the single end product. Your farmer is as different from an intensive beef factory as your local nice independent home cooking from fresh ingredients cafe is from McDonalds. From an environmental point of view only - which is what this thread was about - eating such naturally produced meat is perfectly ethical. I have an otherwise vegan friend who happily eats the eggs of her own very well looked after chickens / ducks. Go to a farmer's market or transparent supply chain butcher. If this makes people's Sunday roast more expensive then they should pause to consider why the Sunday roast is a thing in the first place - before factory scale production most peoeple could only afford meat once a week. unfortunately for every environmentally ethical meat eater there are millions who unquestioningly eat mass produced flesh stuffed full of hormones, antibiotics and (especially once we've left the EU and are at the mercy of barely existent US trading standards) god knows what else, while said Welsh hill farmer struggles to compete at market with Sheepco Inc. despite his lamb being 100 times better.

Don't disagree with any of that, I was just getting that particular bugbear off my chest as I've heard it more than once from people who don't seem to understand the complexities and distinctions you have alluded to. Perhaps not fully on-topic, but I feel better now anyway ;)

[TheAlex]

In my experience the local butcher's ethically sourced (so they say and I'd like to believe it) meat is much nicer (taste and texture) than the supermarket pumped-with-chemicals stuff. Fruit and veg from supermarkets goes off so quickly these days, and is often bad on home delivery. It's disgusting and complaints (Tesco Newcastle-under-Lyme area) don't change anything. I guess they're not going to change the way they store it unless enough people stop buying it. Other supermarkets have been as bad.

On another note, Rake's post has made me realise there are little things I do without realising - like not flushing the chain for a number 1, using a loaf of bread to make sandwiches for a couple of weeks rather than buying pre-packaged each day, drinking tap water, easing off the accelerator up to junctions and roundabouts rather than braking heavily etc. On driving, also keeping a steady pace in queues rather than speeding up to a queue then braking. The problem there is you get idiots who blast past you - this is in 5mph or less traffic. I know it shouldn't but these sort of morons do my head in and it puts me off the environmentally friendlier way of driving.

[Heartland]

Have come to realise I'm quite unintentionally environmental.

Cycle a lot because its quick and I hate sitting in queues. Only usually drive twice a week.

Haven't flown anywhere since 2012. Mainly due to being a boring git.

Wood burner in use; fuel scavenged when branches fall in local park. Nicked a fallen tree last year. Right result.

Generally just rinse hands after a piss. If we shook hands in Brighton don't worry, I'm thorough

[TheAlex]

A cracking episode of Mediterranean with Simon Reeve tonight: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... -episode-4

I'll be checking if my fruit and veg comes from Spain and I imagine it'll push some supermarkets into action.

[pomfob]

A cracking episode of Mediterranean with Simon Reeve tonight: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... -episode-4

I'll be checking if my fruit and veg comes from Spain and I imagine it'll push some supermarkets into action.

At work at the mo', so no access to iPlayer. Could you (or anyone) summarise the issue with Spanish fruit & veg? is it good or bad? A very large proportion of fruit and veg in British supermarkets comes from there, or from the Netherlands.

[TheAlex]

A cracking episode of Mediterranean with Simon Reeve tonight: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... -episode-4

I'll be checking if my fruit and veg comes from Spain and I imagine it'll push some supermarkets into action.

At work at the mo', so no access to iPlayer. Could you (or anyone) summarise the issue with Spanish fruit & veg? is it good or bad? A very large proportion of fruit and veg in British supermarkets comes from there, or from the Netherlands.

Here's the area in pictures: https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/08/t ... meria.html

A couple of the worst things from the 10-minute segment on that location:
African migrant fruit and veg pickers are paid appalling wages and live in appalling conditions.
A load of the plastic sheeting that makes up the greenhouses is dumped and ends up in the sea.
Some of the farm owners are very rich and could afford to pay and house the workers properly, dispose of the waste, and still make massive profits.

The first episode of this series was great too, but more in relation to criminal gangs in Italy rather than environmental issues. The whole series is well worth watching, as is pretty much any travel series Simon Reeve has done. This has probably been the best in terms of the environmental issues that have been highlighted.

[pomfob]

Here's the area in pictures: https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/08/t ... meria.html

A couple of the worst things from the 10-minute segment on that location:
African migrant fruit and veg pickers are paid appalling wages and live in appalling conditions.
A load of the plastic sheeting that makes up the greenhouses is dumped and ends up in the sea.
Some of the farm owners are very rich and could afford to pay and house the workers properly, dispose of the waste, and still make massive profits.

The first episode of this series was great too, but more in relation to criminal gangs in Italy rather than environmental issues. The whole series is well worth watching, as is pretty much any travel series Simon Reeve has done. This has probably been the best in terms of the environmental issues that have been highlighted.

Thanks...that's not good news. As I say, loads of veg in British supermarkets is Spanish in origin. I try to buy British veg to reduce the miles travelled, but there's a lot of stuff that simply doesn't grow here.

[TheAlex]

Find out your food’s climate footprint: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46459714

Rather sobering.