Petition against Numpty Music Venue Moaners

[gtw]

We've all heard about long-standing, much loved music venues closing as someone moved in next to them then complained about the noise. Here's a great petition - an official government one at that - aimed directly at this problem. Please sign and share the ass out it.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/70689

[pomfob]

Done. Ridiculous that it's needed in the first place, but eh, there you go.

[LikeAnotherLanguage]

I'm writing an article about the petition at the moment (for a student paper, nothing too fancy), and was wondering if anyone's got any stories they'd like to share about how this has affected their local venues? I've read a bit about Manchester Night & Day and Brighton Blind Tiger Club, considering their locations I expect a few people on here might have some inside knowledge. Thanks!

[TheAlex]

Signed. Will this petition apply to businesses who move in near a venue too? The petition wording doesn't really suggest that.

A Travelodge was built opposite a pub/live music venue around these parts a few years ago, and about 2 weeks after the Travelodge had opened they began a campaign to get the pub's music licence revoked/renewed: http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Gene ... Travelodge

Sorry LikeAnotherLanguage, I don't have any inside knowledge on the above.

[SPT]

Travelodge? Just get Blackout to threaten to boycott them. They can't take that sort of financial risk.

[Blackout]

I remember that campaign Alex, and did consider a Travelodge boycott until common sense prevailed - nice little venue, that. Utterly ridiculous that they could presume the right to challenge such a loved and established place.

On the wider issue, though, I know people probably expect me to jump up and sign that petition "cos I like live music innit", but in reality I would be completely opposed to a blanket denial of people's right to make such complaints which under some circumstances may well be legitimate. As, I believe, would most of the signatories if they actually gave it due consideration.

Example: You move in close to a live venue, you're a fan and supporter of live music, you'll be going there a lot anyway and you know it's got a 11pm curfew, then a few months down the line you're trying to sleep at midnight on a Tuesday and all you can hear is the bass and drums. Oh, they changed the curfew to 1am. Yeah, there was a tiny notice on the door (I'm thinking specifically of a pub venue I know in Manchester where a change of terms has been applied for - in this case a fairly minor one like changing the bar service deadline from 1am to 2am on Saturdays or something; but the only reason I know about this is because I was having a cigarette on a rainy night the other week causing me to shelter in a particular spot where my eye was drawn to a small font A4 note on the window - a passer-by or non-smoking-on-a-rainy-night punter probably wouldn't have noticed it) but you didn't see it. Sorry, you moved in knowing there was a venue here, suck it up.

The above petition is not the right petition and has not been thought through properly. It will rightly be dismissed and ignored, when a fairer and more constructive version might have a better chance of success.

Here it is: https://www.change.org/p/sajid-javid-mp ... -principle - please sign this instead. (Ignore the fact that it's Frank Turner if you don't like him - I certainly don't - he's making sense here and as a musician with at least one foot in the establishment, so to speak, might actually get someone to listen to him, you know, get on the blower to some of his old school pals or something...)

Both the ridiculous scenarios above could be easily prevented by the Agent Of Change principle. Basically, whoever is responsible for the change in circumstances has to deal with its effects:

- You choose to move into an existing flat (recently vacated by someone who never complained) above Night & Day or similar - you are the agent of change, and therefore it's up to you to either accept the noise as it stands or soundproof the flat at your expense.

- A property development company buys a building opposite an existing music venue, which has for 30 years been an office block where people worked 9 til 5, to convert into flats for people to live in 24/7 OR a hotel for people to sleep the night in. The property development company is the agent of change, and it is up to them to install the necessary soundproofing to ensure the well-being of residents (but of course once the flats are built and established, the agent of change becomes any new resident: if 30 people have lived there for three years quite happy with the noise level provided by the developer's soundproofing but you still think it's too much, that's your problem. Similarly on Travelodge website there are a number of hotels, including BSP fan favourite Brighton Seafront, which state clearly on the booking page that some external noise is to be expected).

- An established cafe in a residential area has been hosting popular acoustic evening sessions a couple of nights a week for as long as anyone can remember; the owner decides they want to try putting proper gigs on, full band set-ups with a PA around once a week (though not on any specific night, as like many small independent promoters they fit in with the touring schedules of bands they like) til 11pm. The cafe owner is the agent of change and if they can not guarantee that noise is kept to a decent level for their neighbours (and no, sticking a limiter in and forcing the bands you've booked to work around it is not a solution) then they should not be allowed the licence.

- An entertainment company is building/converting a brand new venue, e.g. when Manchester's old Sound Control music shop became Sound Control the live gig, bar and club complex. It is the owner/management company's responsibility to ensure the venue is built with full and appropriate soundproofing from day one (as indeed the somewhat appropriately named for this subject Sound Control did).

Common sense is the new rock'n'roll :)

[pomfob]

Here it is: https://www.change.org/p/sajid-javid-mp ... -principle - please sign this instead. (Ignore the fact that it's Frank Turner if you don't like him - I certainly don't - he's making sense here and as a musician with at least one foot in the establishment, so to speak, might actually get someone to listen to him, you know, get on the blower to some of his old school pals or something...)

Yeah, I signed that one too. And I also had a few qualms about backing anything Frank Turner was fronting. Now the swine keeps sending me emails (about the progress of the petition, not his dismal tunes).

[Blackout]

Yeah, I signed that one too. And I also had a few qualms about backing anything Frank Turner was fronting. Now the swine keeps sending me emails (about the progress of the petition, not his dismal tunes).

Julia was clearly the talented one in Million Dead. Although let's just take a minute to admire his hair back then...

[TheAlex]

On the wider issue, though, I know people probably expect me to jump up and sign that petition "cos I like live music innit", but in reality I would be completely opposed to a blanket denial of people's right to make such complaints which under some circumstances may well be legitimate. As, I believe, would most of the signatories if they actually gave it due consideration.

You're right, the Agent of Change one is much better thought out. "Introduce mandatory noise complaint waivers for anyone who buys or rents a property within close distance of a music venue." is much more self explanatory though so I can see why some people would sign that over the other.

[redc]

Too late to save "teeming wombs of London talent" that were the Astoria, Metro, 12 Bar, Buffalo Bar, Madam JoJo's et al will Boris's task force actually save anything?

http://musicvenuetrust.com/london-taskforce

[redc]

Slightly more on topic, this revision to planning guidance wrt to noise from existing businesses:

http://www.musiciansunion.org.uk/news/2 ... ic-venues/

Here's a link to the government planning portal containing the revised guidance @ paragraph 006, and interestingly, @ paragraph 007, includes a revised note about enforcement action for nuisance saying the existing 'character of the locality' has to be considered eg the presence of long established businesses such as live music venues:

http://planningguidance.planningportal. ... -guidance/